Get ready to explore the world of #Proxemics and how it affects video chats! We’ll talk about how different distances between people on screen can impact how we feel and how we lead. Proxemics is all about the space between people when they interact. It’s super important for making online conversations feel natural and for making our message stronger. Understanding this can help us reach more people, build trust, and make our brand known online.
Transcript
Kerry:
Welcome to the Kerry Barrett Show, the go to podcast for leaders. Are you a founder, executive, or part of a dynamic team? Then you’re in the right place. I’m Kerry Barrett, your on camera confidence, public speaking, and delivery coach. Each week, we dive into practical tips, insightful interviews, and engaging stories to help you communicate with confidence and lead with impact. Whether you’re in the boardroom or on the physical or digital stage, this podcast will help you elevate your presence. Let’s get started. In today’s episode of the Kari Barrett show, we’re going to talk about proxemics. Now if you’re not familiar with what proxemics are, it’s sort of the art and the science of interpersonal space.
Kerry:
It’s how video and virtual communications that’s what we’ll be discussing in this particular episode, how Proxemics can be used to better connect with your audience. If you’re not familiar with who I am, let me take a quick second to introduce myself. I’m the go to consultant for executives rather than law firms who want to uplevel their visibility with effective virtual and communication skills, virtual communication for client pitches, for sales and marketing collateral, media appearances, virtual Zoom calls, video calls, the whole nine. So if you’d like to connect and discuss how I may be able to work with you or your team, I’ll have a couple of links in the show notes and in the comments as well, and I look forward to talking with you. Okay. So let’s dive into today’s topic, which is, as I mentioned, the art of using interpersonal space to better connect with your audience. There’s 4 types of interpersonal space, and by types, I mean the distances and what sort of connection is associated with them. I’m gonna reference.
Kerry:
We’ve got intimate space, proxemics, which is about 0 to 18 inches, so that gives you an idea of what type of person you may be connecting with if you are in that sort of interpersonal space. There is standard personal space, which is generally anywhere from about 18 inches to 4 feet or so. You’ve got social interpersonal space, which is 4 feet through 10 feet, and then you’ve got public interpersonal space. The goal of using Proxemics when you are in a virtual communication environment is to replicate the type of communication that you may have in person. I know that a lot of people watching are of the notion that in person is the best way to communicate. And generally speaking, it is, but that’s not how the business world is operating, certainly not since the pandemic. And if we’re able to use the virtual communication and video and media appearances to their best and fullest capacity, we are able to expand our geographical reach. We are able to expand our visibility, our brand awareness, our leadership skills, our credibility.
Kerry:
We become top of mind to people who are far outside of where we might normally be tied in terms of our geographical reach. So, you have the ability to go beyond being, for me, let’s say, a regional public speaking or media coach to someone who is very easily able to connect with people who are at the East and West Coast of the United States and, in fact, even beyond the borders of the country in which I live. So video does offer a lot of opportunities. It is incredibly powerful. It expands your reach. It gives you visibility opportunities that we didn’t have before without traveling, but it can be scary, and it also needs to be used to the best of its ability, and part of that is understanding where proxemics fits in in terms of your audience. Because the way that you might connect with somebody, let’s say, in Japan, for example, would be different than the way that you might communicate with somebody in Canada. Right? I’m picking 2 random countries.
Kerry:
There is no implication in that way at all, just that there’s a different understanding of what interpersonal space replicated. So if you had any moments so far or any questions that may have popped up since I’ve introduced you to what Proxemics is and how it can be incorporated into your video, this is the time to go ahead and drop them in the comments. Let me know what you’re thinking, what sort of moments you’ve had, and then if you have questions, like I said, I will answer them at the end of the live stream. So the first thing that we’re going to talk about is understanding proxemics in the context of executive presence, which is really the psychological impact of each one of those zones that I mentioned, intimate, social, personal and public, and how they influence viewer perception, how they influence viewer connection, especially in the context of leadership and authority, which is why we’re talking about, specifically, executive presence. So there was a CEO that I worked with, and this was a number of years ago, at a tech firm, and they were facing some challenges. I’ll leave it a little bit generic so as not to identify anybody that I may have worked with in the past or that I did work with in the past. And the CEO wanted to address these particular challenges in a series of talking head videos, some that would be released internally within his company, and some that would be released externally to go to external stakeholders, perhaps even the public at some point. So the 1st video was aimed at employees, so internal, and it was filmed in sort of that intimate zone that I mentioned before, which is really anywhere from 0 to 18 inches.
Kerry:
And the reason that it was filmed in that or videoed in that particular realm was to foster more of a connection. This CEO operated within a remote workforce for the most part or certainly hybrid, so not seeing everybody, every day certainly, and there were different locations throughout the country as well. This is in the United States. So there wasn’t even an opportunity to see everybody face to face even if this person had wanted to. So that close-up, that 0 to 18 inches showed empathy. It showed appreciation. It recognized the team’s hard work. It sort of underscored what he was saying in the zone in which this particular video was shot, and so it helped the employees feel valued.
Kerry:
It helped them feel understood. Now for customers also needing some communication about this particular challenge, the 2nd video used the personal zone, and the personal zone, to remind you, is anywhere between 18 inches and 4 feet. So that struck a balance for that customer, the viewer in this case, the audience, with warmth and connection and also professionalism. So there is a little bit more distance there. This setup made the CEO’s message about the company’s challenges and their commitment to overcoming them, right, improvement, if you will, felt like a more personal conversation, something that they may have had if they were standing in front of this particular CEO and they were working on rebuilding trust, working on rebuilding loyalty. Now the final video was something that targeted the broader industry, some of those stakeholders, if you will, and that was shot in the social zone. And the social zone, and I keep referencing my notes to make sure that I’m getting the zones correct, is 4 to 10 feet. And in that case, that proxemics, that zone was used to emphasize authority, was used to emphasize leadership while still remaining approachable.
Kerry:
You weren’t in that public zone, which is more than 10 feet away, so it enhanced, in the eyes of that particular audience, the CEO’s reputation as a forward thinking leader. He was able to talk about vision. He was able to talk about ethical commitments and both the message and and his delivery and the proxemics with which it was shot helped emphasize all of that. So each video, understanding the audience and who it was aimed at, leveraged proxemics, the art and science of understanding interpersonal space and what each of those zones represents and underscores improved employee morale. It improved customer trust. It improved the company’s standing with the broader industry and the stakeholders. Now one thing that you need to understand is that when you are shooting a video, your audience’s eye basically is your lens and your audience’s ear is the microphone. I don’t want you to worry so much about the microphone as you’re experimenting with space because you’re going to have a lapel mic on, you’re going to have a microphone and that is what it is.
Kerry:
Visually is really the area that you’re trying to replicate, and so for those of you who are watching this, you are probably also watching, I would guess, if you’re on a laptop or a desktop, you’re probably about somewhere between 18 and 24 inches away from your screen. If you’re on a phone, you are a little bit closer. So we are combining the 2 distances. I’m getting a little mathy here. We’re probably about 2 and a half to 3 feet away from one another, which means that we’re in that personal space when it comes to proxemics. So understanding the psychological impact of each one of those zones, and I’m gonna dive into the zones themselves here a little bit more deeply in just a second, is important for perception. It’s important when it comes to connection. It’s important when you are talking about those things specifically within the context of leadership and authority.
Kerry:
So I’m gonna dive now into some of the psychological and leadership impacts when it comes to these particular zones. And while I understand them as a layperson and I know how to use them, I am going to reference my notes for the psychological impact because I wanna make sure that I’m explaining this in the easiest way for you to understand. So the intimate zone, once again, 0 to 18 inches. The psychological impact of that particular zone is that it’s reserved, generally speaking, for close personal relationships. It might be a relationship in which you would whisper to somebody or you would embrace or you’d have a confidential exchange. And when an executive appears in this intimate zone, if you will, on a video, it creates a very strong sense or it can, assuming all things align, the delivery, the message, etcetera, of closeness and personal connection with the viewer, which is why it was so powerful in the instance that I described before. It’s very effective for messages that are designed to be empathetic, that are designed to be supportive, that are designed to be personal. A little caveat, some fine print here.
Kerry:
You wanna use this zone judiciously, meaning you’re not going to use it for every single video because if you overuse it, you can create a sense that you’re a little bit intrusive or perhaps a little bit invasive. In terms of the leadership implication in this particular case, you can use this intimate zone to humanize an executive, certainly somebody that might be new to the company, helping them appear more relatable, perhaps more trustworthy, assuming they’re able to smile and understand eye contact through the lens. It’s really appropriate for messages that are aiming to connect on a very personal level. Now we’re gonna talk about the personal zone, which is anywhere from 18 inches to 4 feet. The psychological impact of that particular zone is that it strikes a balance between being close and being professional, sort of having somewhat of that close intimate space for lack of a better word, but also with a bit of professional distance. So you may move in and out of this zone when you’re in, a professional environment, and you can do the same when you’re on a video as well simply by leaning forward to imply that, you know, I’m about to give you a little bit of confidential information and then leaning back, pulling back, and creating more of that sort of professional distance or space. It’s often used, this, this personal zone, the 18 inches to 4 feet, for conversations that are happening between friends. You’ll find yourself very naturally using this space when you’re having a conversation with a friend, even an acquaintance perhaps.
Kerry:
It’s really conducive to those personal interactions. Fosters a sense of direct communication even if you are doing the communication through video or in a virtual environment. In terms of the leadership implication, for executives specifically appearing in this personal zone, if you will, can enhance the feeling of approachability for whomever is watching you, the audience that’s watching you. It enhances the perception of you being open, which means your audience is more likely to buy into whatever it is that you’re saying. They’re more likely to trust you. They’re more likely to feel like you are relatable, which is key. If you don’t come across as relatable, it’s going to be very hard to get people to buy in to trust you because they don’t feel like you understand their problems or their challenges or whatever it is that you are going through. This particular zone is perfect if you’re going to be talking to an audience in a way that suggests a 1 on 1 conversation.
Kerry:
So you may be talking to millions of people, but you’re trying to replicate the feeling that you might get from a 1 on 1 conversation. Now the social zone is 4 to 12 feet. You’re going to find it a little bit more difficult to replicate this in a video. You’ll definitely be standing further back from the lens, and that will replicate that social zone where you’ll lose some power, though it’s much harder for your audience to look into your eyes when you’re in that zone when you’re on a video. So here is where some of that distance some of that physical distance, you’ll see it begin to negate some of the personal connection capacity of video, and you’ll find that it replicates being further away from someone in person, and you’ll deal with all of the same challenges and all of the same benefits. They can’t look you in the eyes, but you’re also creating some distance, which can sort of create a more professional environment or conversation. So the social zone, generally speaking, in terms of its psychological impact, is used for colleagues, maybe very casual acquaintances, something where personal involvement is a little less intense than you might find in the personal zone, the zone that we just talked about, that is 18 inches to 4 feet. Videos that position an executive within this particular zone convey a sense of professionalism, but also a bit of a sense of formality, right, because you are a little bit further removed.
Kerry:
It is effective for delivering or informational sorts of content. Company announcements as well are best shot in this particular zone. And so the leadership implication, as we’re talking about those types of content, is that if you’re operating within this social zone, again, 4 to 12 feet or so, it allows for communication that informs. It allows for guidance. It allows leaders to assert their authority and their expertise, I guess, for lack of a better word, without seeming aloof, but without being all up in your business, if you will. It allows that leadership’s qualities to shine through just in a slightly more removed or formal way, perhaps the better word setting. And then you’ve got your public zone, which is really 10 to 12 feet and beyond. It’s associated with public speaking.
Kerry:
Right? If you’re up on a stage and you’re in front of a live audience, they’re usually, you know, seated a distance away from you. You can’t even see their faces, certainly not those in the back row. It is creating a clear distinction between the speaker and the audience. So if you’re creating a video for an executive and you’re thinking about using the public zone, it emphasizes their role as an authority figure, as a leadership figure, and it certainly makes the communication in the zone feel a little bit more like a broadcast rather than a personal conversation. And I say broadcast and I don’t necessarily mean a news program, you’ll find that the news anchors, for the most part, are shot fairly tightly. They’re in that personal zone, 18 inches to 4 feet, generally speaking, and that’s so the audience can connect with them. In terms of the leadership implication of the public zone, it’s effective for broad messages, messages meant to meet a wide or very broad audience. Like a corporate vision statement might be a place that you would use this public zone, if you will, in an effective way.
Kerry:
You could use this zone for announcing a significant achievement perhaps or a call to action. The visual implication is that it enhances or underscores the executive as a leader. It underscores their status as a visionary within the organization as well, and it’s really useful for executives and is going to use them for inspiration and motivation. So if you’re able to incorporate those particular zones in the different types of video, communications that you do, you’ll be able to establish not only your leader and your executive in a certain capacity and within a certain audience, but you’ll also be able to use it effectively to replicate the way that they would speak to a broader audience if they were in person. For example, 1 on 1 across a conference room versus up on a stage and addressing a broad audience. I’d love to know again what your moments from that segment were in terms of what Proxemics are and how they can be used to position your executive in a place of authority and also connection. And, again, if you have questions, go ahead and drop them in the comments. Up next, we’re gonna be talking about how to use Proxemics for brand connection.
Kerry:
So a couple of tips about how to use Proxemics for enhancing that brand connection. Number 1, it’s intimacy versus authority. You’re constantly balancing the 2, how to balance those close-up close-up shots rather for a more intimate connection with wider shots that convey authority and professionalism. And so we did a video shoot not that long ago for another client where we were using shots that were in, I would say, the social zone and then we would push in for a transition and move into the personal zone. So we’d move from, you know, 4 to 6 feet to something that was closer to 2 feet, and we’re able to move in and out with the video in a way that underscored what it was that they were talking about in that moment and positioning them as either a figure of relatability and warmth and connection versus one who had more authority and was delivering information in the same video series. Tip 2, the power of personal space. So using personal space to create, in video a sense of direct conversation to create something that is engaging with the audience. And so when you are thinking about how you wanna shoot your own video, if you’re doing this on your own and you don’t have to have any special gear in order to do this.
Kerry:
It is simply a matter of where you position the camera, and then if you’re doing, let’s say, a live stream like this, moving in, moving out, or shooting wider, let’s say, on a cell phone and then having an editor or whoever does your post production push in and out, which you are able to do. So if you want to be able to use a particular video or have some options for transitions and moving closer and further, I would say set up your cell phone on a tripod, shoot horizontally, not vertically because you can create some more space around you and then it gives your post production team the option to push in during a video. So generally speaking, in that case, you’re standing probably anywhere from 4 to 6 feet away from your phone, if you’re recording on your phone. Something to be aware of. Check your audio from a distance. Depending on the acoustics in the room and what type of phone you have, you may need to attach a lapel mic, some sort of mic that plugs in or is a wireless wirelessly connected to your phone because your audio can take a nosedive, a substantial nosedive, the further away from your recording device that you move. Tip number 3 is nonverbal cues and spatial dynamics. You’re going to be using all of these in your video creation.
Kerry:
So I talk about the role of nonverbals quite a bit in my videos and in my content and certainly in my newsletter and my blog. So nonverbals are gestures. They are posture. They’re facial expressions. They’re eye contact, and it’s also the way that you use your voice. So it’s your pitch and it’s your pace, and you can use those elements of your nonverbal communication to reinforce the Proxemics message and the actual words that you’re saying. So from a distance, you will want to enhance or or enlarge, if you will, your nonverbals. They’re going to be a little bit harder to see.
Kerry:
Think about the difference between sitting across the conference room table with somebody, personal space, and standing up on a stage and talking to somebody that’s in the very back row of the audience that’s 50 to 75 yards away from you. You are talking in the stage instance to the person in the back row because you want them to have as similar of an experience to the person in the front row as they possibly can, which means your gestures are larger. Your projection is greater. You are deliberately speeding up and slowing down, and your smile may be a little bit bigger than it normally would be. Now if you did those sorts of gestures while you’re sitting across the table from somebody 2 to 3 feet away from them, you’re going to look a little bit bombastic or, like, you’re trying too hard to use a more common expression. And so replicating the gestures that you would use depending on the personal space that you are in person is what you should consider when you are shooting a video as well. And so adjusting for non verbals, proxemics, and messaging to that specific audience is important in each video or each virtual communication environment that you are in. I hope that makes sense.
Kerry:
If there were any moments that you had in that particular segment, go ahead and please leave them for me in the comments. It’s helpful for me to know what is helpful for you. And again, if you have questions, go ahead and drop them in there. I’m going to answer all of them and I see a few popping up now, when we get to the end of the live stream. And finally, we’re gonna talk about how to apply all of these concepts in terms of proxemics to your business development. So we talked a little bit about how executives can use proxemic strategies to differentiate their virtual and video communications, the thoughtful sort of use or deployment, if you will, of proximate choices on viewer engagement. I see a question about that in the comments, so we’ll answer it perhaps here in a moment. If not, we can dive deeper in.
Kerry:
Viewer engagement, trust building, and ultimately your business development outcomes, and certainly client attraction and acquisition. So this was another client that I worked with actually about 3 years ago when I was first starting my business, and they were looking to differentiate their message in a space in which there’s a lot of competition online. A lot of their competitors were already operating in a virtual space even prior to the pandemic, so their competitors had a larger geographic reach, not just in terms of client acquisition, but also in terms of visibility and awareness. And they were, they had employees who were doing virtual speaking engagements and so were their executives. And so they had their competitors had a a broader reach is basically what I’m trying to say, and so they were crowded. The space was crowded. The marketing and visibility space online was was was busy, and it was noisy. So this particular client who was a higher up executive within a larger organization, not in the c suite, but wanted to try and use Proxemics in a video that was aimed at, bringing in a more broad audience.
Kerry:
In fact, this was a global audience, and I touched on a little bit of this at the start of the live stream. So understanding the cultural differences in proxemics and personal space, this particular executive, we came up with a plan together to use framing within the context of virtual communications recorded, and then we’re also able to replicate this live in video calls that they had with potential clients and during speaking virtual speaking engagements, etcetera, that was able to create a blend of personal and social zones. So I talked a little bit about how to do this in the last segment, moving in, moving out, where to position and where to frame yourself. But when you think about the different audience, and it may be that you have to create a couple of videos for audiences that are culturally different in order to not seem aloof to 1 audience and not seem intrusive or invasive to another. But the particular video that we started with this campaign was very carefully crafted. We created 2 actually, with an understanding of global nuances, if you will, in terms of Proxemics. Now there is a standard in business language, if you will, and that is generally speaking the English language. And, therefore, a lot of the broader global population has adopted some of the nonverbal types of speaking that English speaking, western, American specifically, business leaders generally tend to lean towards.
Kerry:
However, being able to understand where your audience is and how they’re able to use this is important. So the success of this particular approach, the success of creating these different videos, and understanding the global differences in interpersonal space and proxemics made this video series a fantastic private tool in their global outreach campaign and in their business development efforts. And so understanding how that was and what that meant to their audience and creating something with them in mind made the outreach and the connection and the touch point that much more powerful. So what I would suggest is if you’re working on this on your own is to do a little bit of cultural sensitivity research to your specific audience before you put together the video content. Perhaps the messaging, but certainly the production elements. How close you’re going to be standing. Are you going to be pushing in and out through post production, I am getting closer to the camera versus further away, or are you going to be doing that physically? What is the right strategy for that particular audience? And if you understand the proxemic preferences of your target audience in these different cultures and there’s probably a few that you are looking to get in front of or that you are already in front of on a regular basis and you want to enhance your messaging there. It does bring a new level of effectiveness to your video content and your virtual communication.
Kerry:
So if you’re able to tailor spatial dynamics, is another word for it, in your video to respect those cultural nuances, it leads to higher engagement rates. It leads to stronger trust. It leads to a deeper connection with your global audience. So when you’re using this correctly, it expands your reach. It builds brand loyalty, and it enhances your communication effectiveness. So we went over what Proxemics is, why it’s important, how you can use it to expand your reach, create a greater connection with your brand, position your executive or your key leadership in certain ways in front of certain audiences? I hope that’s helped understand how you can actually use video almost as effectively as you would in person communication. I hear people all the time saying that it’s just not as effective. And if you are not doing it correctly, that’s very true.
Kerry:
It’s not. But if you are doing it correctly, it’s insanely efficient and insanely effective. And you can get yourself in front of so many more people that even if your conversion rate isn’t quite as high as it would be in person, it should be, but sometimes it’s not, You’re in front of so many more people that you’re still bringing in more business and creating more opportunity than you would be exclusively meeting 1 by 1. By the way, this applies to media opportunities as well. If you’re looking to get your mug on CNBC or Fox Business or MSNBC or heck the Today Show, all of this expands your opportunities to do that. So, what surprised you? Any moments that you’d like to share with me or the audience? Go ahead and drop them in the comments. I see a few of you here. Hi, Carlos.
Kerry:
Oh, hello from Philly. I miss you guys in Philly as well. Marie, I’m trying to show your message. I think you’re tagging somebody here and hopefully, Justin, you were able to join. We answered, I think, most of the questions that came in, but I do see one here from Chuck and Chuck, I appreciate you sticking around. Chuck’s question is, does this keep the viewer engaged? Is that the point, and how can you be careful not to make it overkill? Absolutely. It keeps your viewer engaged really for a number of different reasons, and I I went over them in the livestream. But to recap them for you, I’m happy to have a conversation offline if you’d like to as well.
Kerry:
The reason is anytime you change up the visuals in your video or virtual communications, you’re creating something that’s called a pattern interrupt in public speaking lingo, and it is something that reengages the audience. And so you may may see this when somebody creates an interesting edit in their video or there’s they’ve moved to a different location or they have a different background or they change the rate of speech, all of those things are pattern interrupts, and so changing the spatial distance between you and your audience, your lens in a in a video or virtual environment, does create a visual pattern interrupt. It also just like nonverbal and body language cues in personal conversation, it indicates when you’re having in the acting world would be called a beat. You’re changing emotion or there’s a transition to a new thought or you are indicating that something’s really exciting, and I’m gonna give you some inside information. All of those things keep the viewer engaged, and it is part of the point, but it’s also understanding how to leverage video in the most effective way possible by replicating in person communication that is appropriate for the audience to whom you are speaking. So if I’m creating a video that’s going directly to 1 person specifically, I would certainly shoot in the, depending on the person, intimate or personal zone. I’m going to get a little bit closer. If I’m shooting something that’s designed for one of my video courses, my digital programs, I would shoot from a little bit further away, because I don’t wanna be intrusive for hours of video course content, and I also want to replicate what I used to do when I was teaching at the college level.
Kerry:
Right? I’m creating a little bit more distance. There is a larger audience and I’m trying to create something that is comfortable for all of them. I hope that makes sense. How can you be careful not to make it overkill? There is a balance and you will find that it’s different for some of your audiences, and really the easiest way to find out what works is to create something and go back and watch it. But if you have somebody in post reduction who’s moving in and out and in and out and you’re moving in and out and in and out and you’re giving your viewer whiplash because there’s so much going on, that’s overkill, and you’ll learn to find it as you watch, and then you’ll learn to feel it as you create, and then you’ll know how to deploy and execute on it a little bit better and how to guide, again, your post production team if you have somebody who is editing it for you. Really good post production team. If they understand your audience and who you are, we’ll know where to push in and where to push out when they’re editing video for an audience that needs different levels of closeness, if you will. I hope that this all made sense.
Kerry:
If you are interested in having a conversation about how I might be able to help you speak more effectively, you speaking to create business development opportunities, I will leave a link in the comments where you can schedule a free strategy call. I would love to speak with you. Thank you so much for joining us today. Next week, we’re going to be talking about personality. Why is it important to show it? Why it’s a little bit scary for a lot of us and some easy steps to take in order to be able to practice to get comfortable with it in a way that doesn’t scare your audience away. How can you show who you are authentically and show a little bit of personality to make you stand out in a way that is good for you and good for your audience? Thank you for joining us. Have a fantastic
